A graphic that reads "The Skillful Podcast Season 2 episode 46 Don’t Believe Everything You Think" over a stock photo of a lightbulb.

#46: Don’t Believe Everything You Think

This episode explores how to apply mindfulness skills to help you manage distressing thoughts using the DBT skill called Mindfulness of Current Thoughts. Thoughts can cause a lot of suffering. Often, thoughts about events are based on assumptions, judgments, or interpretations rather than on facts.

The core of this skill is to notice thoughts as just thoughts, or sensations of the brain, rather than as fact or truth. This can help lower emotional distress and reactivity.  Mindfulness of Current Thoughts helps you change your relationship with your thoughts rather than changing the thoughts themselves.

Show Highlights

  • The origin of many of our painful emotions are stories we tell ourselves
  • Negative or judgmental thoughts may be nearly constant in the background of one’s mind
  • Activating the part of the brain that is a witness to what your brain is doing
  • Using Observe and Describe with your thoughts
  • Mindfulness of Current Thoughts is not about analyzing or changing our thoughts
  • If you are stuck in negative thinking, it is nearly impossible to argue yourself out of a thought
  • Some people try to suppress thoughts which doesn’t work, or can backfire, and the painful thought can come back stronger
  • Not being attached to thoughts and not pushing them away
  • Observing your thoughts coming and going without judging, pushing away, or keeping thoughts around
  • Imagery can be helpful: watching thoughts like clouds going by, waves crashing on the sand, or leaves floating by on a stream
  • Remembering we are not our thoughts, and we don’t have to act on our thoughts
  • Trying to remember times when you had different thoughts
  • Noticing when your thoughts are coming from Emotion Mind, rather than Wise Mind
  • Try singing your thoughts or saying them in a funny voice, accent, or in the voice of a cartoon character

DBT Skills Discussed

Ask us a Question

We’d love to hear from you! Where are you getting stuck with your skills application? Ask us a question for the chance to have it answered on the podcast. Submit your question here.

Please note that questions, and this podcast in general, are not a substitute for individual mental health treatment.


#46: Don’t Believe Everything You Think Transcript

Marielle Berg 

Hello and welcome to The Skillful Podcast where we explore DBT and RO-DBT skills to help you reduce emotional suffering, improve your relationships, and become more present in your life. I’m your host, Marielle Berg, a psychotherapist at the Bay Area DBT and Couples Counseling Center.

Marielle Berg 

Welcome, Ed, how are you doing today?

Ed Fowler 

I am doing good, and excited to talk about Mindfulness of Current Thoughts.

Marielle Berg 

Me too. So we have these different skills in Distress Tolerance that we have talked about a bunch on the podcast. So in Distress Tolerance, we have skills that are more focused on change, where you proactively do something. Like you do some of the TIPP skills and you get your cold water or ice, or you do paced breathing, or self soothing, or you distract in some way. And then we also have this skill called Mindfulness of Current Thoughts that we’re going to talk about today, which isn’t about doing something so much. It’s more about changing internally how we relate to distressing thoughts.

Ed Fowler 

Basically, applying our Mindfulness skills, specifically to our thoughts, as a way to recognize that oftentimes, the source of our distress is thoughts and patterns of thinking that we find ourselves just lost in, and taking very, very seriously. And just taking a step back and noticing our thoughts can help us have a perspective that brings down distress.

Marielle Berg 

Yes, because so many of our painful emotions, the origin of them are painful thoughts. Often they’re distorted thoughts or thoughts that kind of cherry pick information, and so don’t bring in the whole picture. But very often, if we can sort of trace back what is behind feeling, high distress, feeling maybe very angry or sad or helpless or overwhelmed. It’s, it’s thoughts.

Ed Fowler 

And kind of getting into some of how we approach this in Emotion Regulation. Like very often those thoughts are heavily based in assumptions, or judgments, interpretations that, as you said, Marielle, are missing some vital information. And in order to actually be able to work with that, we have to notice what the thoughts are, and be able to like approach them from a new perspective.

Marielle Berg 

And I think it’s pretty common for folks to not notice that there’s pretty regular negative thoughts, kind of as, like a background tape. And for different people, it will show up in different ways, but very common, kind of background noise, thoughts that might always be running. And sometimes maybe they’re louder, and sometimes they’re quieter, are very painful thoughts, like I’m a failure. There’s something wrong with me. It’s all my fault, I’ll never find love or happiness, or you know, insert whatever the thing is. And I think bringing attention to these thoughts can really change things and can really free us from from believing those painful thoughts to be the truth about who we are.

Ed Fowler 

And the core of Mindfulness of Current Thoughts as a Distress Tolerance skill, is noticing our thoughts as thoughts. As just thoughts. As opposed to facts or truths, or something that we have to act on right now. But being able to recognize that our thoughts are just thoughts, we have millions of them every day, we don’t notice most of them. And being able to have the sense of like, oh, that’s a thought as opposed to no, it’s a fact that I’m terrible, and I’ll never have what I want in my life. It’s like no, that’s a thought I’m having, can really help us to bring down that distress.

Marielle Berg 

And that’s in essence, what this skill does. So it is encouraging us or sort of training us to relate to our thoughts differently. And so just relating to our thoughts, or observing, or noticing our thoughts as neural firing, or sensations in the brain, rather than facts about ourselves or others, or the world as we’ve been talking about here.

Marielle Berg 

So when you can activate that part of your brain that is a witness to what your brain is doing and you just observe it, there’s real potential freedom there, because then we don’t have to believe everything we think So it’s not it’s not easy. It takes a lot of practice, but the rewards I think are worth it.

Ed Fowler 

And I think, you know, when we talk about these skills around Mindfulness of Thoughts or just Mindfulness in general, our our minds are built to think. We have thoughts all day long. Even when we’re sleeping, we have dreams, that are forms of thoughts, right? And so we can’t turn our thoughts off. And, and our minds are built to think, so we’re doing what our minds are supposed to be doing, we’re supposed to be thinking. But we want to be able to have a bit more ability to direct those thoughts, and to choose what to focus on in those thoughts, rather than feeling that sense of like, I’m having these thoughts, and there’s nothing I can do about it, and if these are really painful thoughts, I have no choice but to just be with them and keep going down that road, and wherever those painful thoughts take me, that’s where they take me.

Ed Fowler 

Mindfulness of Thoughts is about being able to say, hold on, I’m having thoughts. Let me notice the thoughts. Let me see how I want to focus my attention on those thoughts. And let me see what I might choose to do about those thoughts versus the thoughts choosing what to do for me.

Marielle Berg 

Yeah, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head there with the skill. That it really helps us be not reactive. So it’s common that we think a painful thought about ourselves, or maybe about someone else, maybe we’re thinking, Oh, my significant other really doesn’t care about me. And then we act on that, and how we interact with them. Or maybe we send them a, you know, a, a text that we wish we could take back or you know, there can be a whole list of things that we might do in response to some of these thoughts that can create more suffering for us. So the skill really helps us not do that.

Marielle Berg 

And then and then make a Wise Mind choice if we are going to do anything, what that might be. And we definitely have skills in DBT that are around actually changing the thoughts and working directly with them, like a Check the Facts, for example. But this skill, this skill is different. So we have skills in our DBT framework that might feel contradictory, because there is a time and a place in Emotion Regulation, really, to Check the Facts. And that involves challenging our thoughts. And so that’s a more change oriented skill. And this is a more acceptance oriented skill, right.

Ed Fowler 

And it’s a Mindfulness skill. So it’s applying Mindfulness approaches, you know, observing, describing, even participating as a way to notice our thoughts, which mindfulness very often is the starting point to figuring out what we might do. We start with just becoming aware. Because it’s hard to know what to do, unless we’re aware. And Mindfulness of Thoughts gives us the opportunity to be aware of our thoughts, and aware of our thoughts with a bit of a distance, a bit of like a loose grasp, so that we’re not like so attached to our thoughts.

Marielle Berg 

And with that, we’re not analyzing our thoughts, or, as I said a moment ago, trying to change them, or contradict them. And I imagine I’m not the only person who’s maybe gotten into a bit of a, I mean, argument is too strong of a word, but it can sometimes feel like that, with someone who’s having a lot of negative thoughts about themselves, or circumstance.

Marielle Berg 

So I’m thinking of a conversation I had with someone not too long ago about how terrible they were at their job. And so they had a lot of thoughts that felt like facts, and that pointed to the truth of how terrible they were at their job. But then there were other things, or other facts, that I brought up, and those thoughts were rejected immediately or minimized, as not important, as not as important as the negative thoughts.

Marielle Berg 

And so if you’ve been in that situation, where you’re trying to point out a different way of looking at a situation to someone else, you have probably had a similar kind of experience where when a person is very stuck in negative thinking, it’s very hard to argue them out of it. And so this skill is saying we’re not doing that. We’re not trying to argue ourselves out of a negative thought. We are just noticing and disidentifying. Oh, my brain is having that thought again. I am terrible at my job. Isn’t that interesting?

Ed Fowler 

And there is such a huge difference between I am terrible at my job and I’m having the thought that I’m terrible at my job. And that’s like basic Mindfulness of Thoughts is adding that “I’m having the thought that” as opposed to oh, I, just taking the thought as fact or truth.

Marielle Berg 

As we’re talking about here, when we’re practicing, being mindful of our thoughts, we’re just noticing, and radically accepting thoughts for what they are.  Sensations of the brain that come and go. As you said, a little while ago, Ed, we are having thoughts all the time. I know, I had this fantasy that if I meditated or practice mindfulness enough, that like the thoughts might stop. Longtime meditators have told me that is not true. So disappointed.

Marielle Berg 

So that, you know, having a mind empty of thoughts, which I think can be something that you know, myself included, that people new to mindfulness will, will think is, is the goal, but it isn’t. So you’re not doing it wrong, if your mind is still thinking, when you’re practicing, being mindful. The key is, is to just notice it and not identify with it. So we’re noticing and radically accepting our thoughts instead of reacting to them, or grabbing hold of them and not letting go. So we are changing our relationship to our thoughts, rather than changing the thoughts themselves.

Ed Fowler 

And that’s the key tell Mindfulness of Current Thoughts is we are not trying to change our thoughts. We are trying to notice them in a new way. Notice them with new perspective, without trying to change them. And as you know, DBT has this balance of acceptance, and change. And as a very change oriented person, someone who, who likes the change side of things, um, when we’re focusing on more acceptance oriented skills, like Mindfulness of Thoughts, I like to remind myself, we practice Mindfulness of Thoughts to change our perspective and our relationship with our thoughts, so that we’re in a better position to move into maybe Emotion Regulation skills to actually change those thoughts or change, what thoughts we have. Mindfulness of Thoughts really is just changing the, the orientation to the thoughts, starting with that.

Marielle Berg 

It really can bring down our SUDs, so it’s in the Distress Tolerance module, because it’s an option, when your Subjective Units of Distress or SUDs are high. It’s one way to respond.

Ed Fowler 

And I think that when our Subjective Units of Distress are, are very high, mindfulness of thoughts is going to be hard to do. Because our thoughts, our emotions, and this is where we get into emotions and thoughts happen at the same time. And very often, emotions can give a tone to thoughts, or fuel thoughts in a way that makes it harder to manage.

Ed Fowler 

And so if our emotions are really high, our thoughts are going to seem more real, truthful, factual. And so sometimes we do need to start with some other distress tolerance to get to a place where we can notice our thoughts without saying, Oh, no, it is absolutely true that I’m a terrible person who will never succeed, that’s true. It’s like we need to have a little bit of grounding in order to not go that far.

Marielle Berg 

It’s such an important point. So it’s not the first skill to reach for, when your distress is at its highest, we have our other skills like the TIPP, in particular, that that’s what you want to go for. But this is something to keep in your toolbox when you are having painful thoughts and want a different way of being with them or want to not believe them.

Marielle Berg 

And I think for some people, they might be veer on the side, more of trying to suppress their thoughts, which actually can really backfire. And for other people, they might get really lost in their thoughts, and kind of can be more in the place of ruminating, or obsessive thinking, where they’re kind of going over and over the same or similar thoughts in their mind. So there’s, there’s different poles or different ways that people respond to their thoughts. And so the belief that I think some folks have that we should have control over our thoughts all the time is, is false. And it actually can make you feel more controlled by your thoughts.

Ed Fowler 

Right.

Ed Fowler 

And so again, the mindfulness approach is so helpful of, we’re trying not to be attached to our thoughts and not pushing them away. So we’re not holding on to them. And like no, I have to, I have this thought that this bad thing is going to happen and I really need to figure out is it going to happen? What will I do when it happens? Is it, is, should I be thinking this? And then we’re really attached to that thought. And that tends to get us more stuck. Whereas I’m not thinking about it. I’m not thinking about it. Don’t think about an elephant, oh, you just thought about an elephant, right? So it’s like, we really want to have that in between. We’re not attached, we’re not pushing away, we’re just noticing.

Marielle Berg 

Yeah, and with that I forgot to add that, for some folks, there’s a belief that they can’t bear painful thoughts, so they’ll do a lot of things to avoid them. And that’s where some of the behaviors that cause people additional problems come in. So like, I don’t want to think about that, I can’t think about that. It’s too hard. And so I’m going to do something else that is actually destructive in some way.

Ed Fowler 

And I do think so often, really compulsive behaviors that that feel very detrimental, very often are rooted in I am having painful thoughts, and I have to make them stop. And so that’s where we would do want to be able to have a way to change our relationship with our thoughts without doing something that’s going to make things harder down the road.

Marielle Berg 

Yes. And should we maybe talk a little bit about how to actually do this?

Ed Fowler 

I think so.

Marielle Berg 

Okay.

Marielle Berg 

I mean, we’ve been, we’ve been referring to it, but let’s start doing it.

Ed Fowler 

I know, we’ve been giving little little hints of what you might do. And it’s probably helpful to have some specifics.

Marielle Berg 

So the first thing that we’ve been talking about is just observing, so we bring our Observe or noticing skill on board. So you can just observe your thoughts kind of coming and going, like waves in the ocean. Because all our thoughts, even if you know, they might come back, they do pass. They, they come and they go. So just letting your thoughts come and go. Without judging, without suppressing. Without trying to keep them around.

Ed Fowler 

One of the things that I find helpful with this idea is, we just have thoughts all day. And they do come and go when our thoughts are really painful, especially patterns of thought that we can fall into. There’s a sense of like, Oh, here’s this thought, again, it’s never gonna go away. And the reality is things change.

Ed Fowler 

And so if you, if you try to remember, what were you thinking yesterday, at this exact same time that you’re listening to this podcast, you probably can’t remember your specific thoughts. You certainly can’t remember your specific thoughts from a week ago, or a month ago, or a year ago. And yet, when we’re in our thoughts, it’s like, no, of course, I’m always gonna remember these thoughts.

Ed Fowler 

And the reality is, no matter what, our thoughts come and go. Notice the thoughts coming and going and slowing down. And one of the things we, that can be helpful is using imagery, like imagining your thoughts as waves on the beach, coming and going, clouds in the sky passing by, something that can remind you, these thoughts are here, and they are passing. And if I pay attention, I’ll watch them passing.

Marielle Berg 

And it’s not analyzing our thoughts, which might be surprising to some listeners, and I love analyzing thoughts. And it’s one of the things that we do in therapy that can be enjoyable, and interesting. And it’s an intellectual exercise. And there’s, you know, there’s a lot of potential positive things can come out of that, when the time and place is right. But when our distress is high, it’s often not useful, we’re not going to get to a place that will lead to freedom. So with this skill, we’re not analyzing our thoughts.

Ed Fowler 

Another thing that can help – once we’ve noticed our thoughts and started to develop that perspective of, oh, I’m having thoughts, I’m noticing my thoughts, and I’m observing my thoughts, then we can adopt some curiosity about our thoughts. Being able to start to take that step back and say, Where do these thoughts come from? Can I notice when these thoughts started, just really noticing exactly what the thoughts are? Having curiosity about our thoughts. Oh, how interesting that I’m having those thoughts after this interaction, for instance.

Ed Fowler 

So we bring in curiosity, which automatically engages our Reasonable Mind if we’re thinking about that Wise Mind, balance of Emotion Mind and Reasonable Mind. Curiosity is a Reasonable Mind activity. So if emotions are strong and strongly influencing our thoughts, being curious about the thoughts can balance that out.

Marielle Berg 

So remembering that we are not our thoughts. We don’t necessarily have to act on our thoughts. And related to that, as we said a little bit earlier, trying to remember times when you had different thoughts. I loved what you said Ed, about like trying to remember, what was I thinking on this, you know, exact hour, 30 days ago, last month? We don’t know.

Marielle Berg 

So our thoughts come and go, and remembering that we have different thoughts at different times. Of course, some thoughts might be like that running background tapes that I talked about. But they still come and go, and the exact nature or flavor of them can change.

Ed Fowler 

And trying to hold the perspective that really painful thoughts are an expression of feelings of Emotion Mind. And being able to have that perspective of okay, I am having these thoughts. This is Emotion Mind. And let me notice the thoughts from that perspective. Instead of, well, I’m having these thoughts because I have to do something about this. I’m having these thoughts, because if I don’t figure out what to do about these thoughts, they’ll never go away. But being able to just step back and saying, I am having thoughts, period, what are the thoughts? These thoughts are painful, this is probably Emotion Mind. That, again, anything that gives us just a little space between our awareness and our thoughts, so that we’re not in the thoughts, we’re noticing the thoughts.

Marielle Berg 

And again, as we mentioned before, we don’t want to block or suppress thoughts. We’re just letting them come and go. And we have some creative suggestions on how exactly to do that. So some fun things, or maybe some scary things, depending on your personality to try, or, you know, you can you can sing your thoughts, which I’m not going to do here. But yet, because that will –

Ed Fowler 

No, do it, Marielle, do it!

Marielle Berg 

Oh no, I’m not quite ready to do that. Do you sing, Ed?

Ed Fowler 

No, I’m not doing it. That’s why I’m encouraging you.

Marielle Berg 

No one will ever tune in again after this episode.

Ed Fowler 

I know exactly.

Marielle Berg 

We don’t want to increase people’s SUDs. So. But I have done it certainly on my own and like the privacy of my kitchen, from having a negative thought like, I might sing it or say it in a funny voice. Or say it as you know, a cartoon character. And it is so useful, because it just takes all the energy out of the thought like all that intensity.

Ed Fowler 

Again, one of the things that I will do sometimes is, say my thoughts out loud, which can change it up. But again, saying it in like a more humorous tone. So one thing is like saying my thoughts as if I’m talking to a dog. So saying, you know, who is a total failure? Who’s never gonna amount to anything? Who is it? Who is it? Is it you? Are you a total failure, who’s never gonna amount to anything? It like has such a different tone than I’m a total failure will never amount to anything.

Ed Fowler 

And so this kind of creative way of expressing our thoughts just to ourselves, this works best totally by yourself. Which is why Marielle and I are not singing our thoughts right now. But like, this is a way to start to have a different perspective, that instead of this is so serious, these thoughts are so serious, being able to say it or sing it in a humorous way starts to shift that awareness.

Ed Fowler 

Now, I’m saying this, and I’ve done this with people before where this can feel really invalidating. If you’re in a lot of pain and you’re having painful thoughts, saying your thoughts in a funny voice can feel like, you know, screw you, that’s rude. You know, this is serious. Okay, so then don’t do don’t use this approach in that circumstance, right? You gotta really be ready for that. But I do think that it’s worth it to try noticing your thoughts and saying them in a funny voice or singing them or trying to put your thoughts to the tune of your favorite song that really shifts the way that you interact with those thoughts.

Marielle Berg 

Yeah, it just as I was saying, it just takes that that the air out of them, the intensity, and I loved your saying your negative thought as if you’re talking to a dog. It’s just really funny.

Ed Fowler 

Right? And for me when I do that, that breaks me out of that, high distress.

Marielle Berg 

Yeah.

Ed Fowler 

Because now like, oh my god, I’m a failure. I’m a failure. I’m a failure. Who’s a failure? Are you failure? Like, now I’m out of it. And I’m not in the thoughts in that way. And so that’s the point.

Marielle Berg 

Yeah.

Ed Fowler 

Is to get us out of like, oh, this is so serious. This is so painful. I must do something about this. Whatever we can do, like another suggestion is say your thoughts really fast. I’m a failure. I’m a failure. I’m failure. How many times can I say it in a minute? It, like, It just shifts this awareness. And now it doesn’t have such a tight hold.

Marielle Berg 

And it’s sort of like a trance state. As you were talking about it, that kind of like I’m a failure, I’m a failure, or whatever, you know, for listeners insert your negative thought in there, that it’s and we can get so, so wrapped up in that, and we can believe it to be true. And so this is just a technique to help you separate yourself from your thoughts and to, you know, have a little lightness around it. So that’s, that’s one way or a series of different ways that you can practice being mindful of your current thoughts. By altering the words you’re using, or your voice tone or your pitch.

Marielle Berg 

And then we also, as we were talking about with the observing piece, we can get creative with different imagery that can help us sort of just imagine our thoughts coming and going. And you shared earlier Ed, that’s like really soothing imagery of like, you know, waves crashing on the sand. You can also step back from your mind, as if you’re on the top of a mountain. And your mind is a boulder down below. And you’re just gazing at your mind. You’re just watching whatever thoughts come up.

Ed Fowler 

Yeah, I think this, trying to employ imagery in this way also slows us down and shifts us out of whatever space we’ve been in. So for instance, people have probably heard, this is kind of a common one, have imagine clouds passing slowly in the sky, and just put your thought on a cloud and watch it drift. So and then as the next thought comes, put it on another cloud and watch the clouds just drift by.

Ed Fowler 

So that it helps us to recognize thoughts come and they go. And by like slowing down and tuning in, like I’m a failure. I’m watching that cloud drift by, oh, I’m capable of practicing mindfulness of thoughts. That’s a thought put it on a cloud, watch it drift by, this is kind of silly, put it on a cloud, watch it drift by. So we’re just kind of slowing it down and using this imagery, like clouds or leaves on a stream. And just notice our thoughts, place it on a leaf and let it slowly go by. And it gives us that perspective that my thoughts are just drifting, as opposed to oh, here’s another thought I got to do something about this one now.

Marielle Berg 

Yes. And in addition to the imagery, we can also bring some Opposite Action, to work on being Mindful of our Current Thoughts. So some things to think about are imagining what you would do if you stopped believing everything you think. I think this is such a great one to really ponder. What would you do if you stopped believing everything you think? Would you take more risks? Would you quit your job? Would you tell someone that you love them? You know, what would you do? So this is such a powerful one.

Marielle Berg 

You can also think about just relaxing your face and your body while imagining accepting your thoughts as only thoughts and just sensations of the brain. So that’s a bit of a an Opposite Action. So you’re letting go of tension. Just relaxing your face relaxing your body, and imagining accepting your thoughts as your thoughts and seeing what that’s like.

Ed Fowler 

And tuning into physical sensations, and maybe trying to notice, are these thoughts distracting me from physical sensations? So then notice, what am I feeling physically? To scan your body, and then come back to the thoughts. So it’s like, oh, I’m feeling a lot of tension in my shoulders, and my neck. My hands are clenched. Now I’m coming back to the thought, I’m a failure. Okay, I’m going to unclench my hands. I’m a failure, and kind of playing with the thought and the physical sensation and going back and forth. When again, we’re not trying to change the thought. But we’re adding in awareness of physical sensations so that it’s not just I’m a failure, I’m a failure. It’s like okay, hands are clenched. I’m a failure, loosening my grip. Well, now I don’t feel as much like a failure. Okay, what comes next?

Ed Fowler 

And again, with mindfulness of thoughts, we’re just noticing, so it’s not like I’m a success! Like, and that’s where people can get off track is like, Okay, well, if you’re really struggling with the the strong emotions that go with I’m a failure. You might have a lot of resistance to I’m a success. We’re not trying to say the opposite thought. It’s more just like, Okay, what comes next? I don’t know whether I can succeed. Okay, what comes next? I’m afraid that I can’t succeed. Okay, right. And so you just notice One thought after another, being able to tune into physical sensations gives you something to kind of go back and forth. So it is not just thought thought thought.

Marielle Berg 

Yes, and doing this takes a lot of practice. So watch negative thoughts about yourself if you try to practice this, and it feels challenging. But I, as I said earlier, I do think it’s worth it to gently continue practicing, just being mindful, just observing, noticing thoughts, and not mistaking them for facts, or responding to them as commands to do something.

Ed Fowler  

I think that when people are starting to practice Mindfulness of their Thoughts, and I want the listeners to be on the lookout for this, because I think this is very common. And now you can notice, oh, there’s that thought that Ed mentioned, this is stupid is a thought that will come up, this isn’t going to work is a thought that will come up, this isn’t helping, is a thought that will come up. So now I’m planting a little seed, so that if you try to practice Mindfulness of Thoughts, and you notice this isn’t working, oh, wait a minute. Oh, Ed was right. Because Ed’s always right.

Marielle Berg 

Just a thought we could observe. I’m gonna let that thought go.

Ed Fowler 

But again, I think that really noticing the thoughts and noticing that there are going to be judgmental thoughts about practicing Mindfulness of Thoughts. And just okay, I’m having judgments about practicing this.

Marielle Berg 

Yeah.

Ed Fowler 

As Marielle said, my experience and people who practice this skill is, if you can get into it and try it, it often can make a difference.

Marielle Berg 

Yeah, the longer I practice DBT, the more I appreciate the skill. I think in the beginning, I was focused more on the beginning of my studying of DBT and some of the heavy hitters. Check the Facts, Opposite Action, Radical Acceptance, but I’m really beginning to appreciate the subtlety and the efficacy of the skill over time. And also watch out for a thought of I’m not doing this right.

Ed Fowler 

Oh yes.

Marielle Berg 

You know, or I can’t tell.

Ed Fowler 

I’ll mentioned that, when that happens. It’s like oh, I’m having that thought Marielle mentioned, right? Because again, we we know this because we practice this, and we’ve heard people talk about it, and we recognize the thoughts that can come up. Those are also just thoughts. They’re all, and for me, this is something that’s helpful, it’s just a thought. It’s just a thought, because I can when I’m really in a lot of distress, I take my thoughts so seriously. I am being taken advantage of I am in danger. Like I’m having the thought I’m being taken advantage of, because that’s the reality. It’s not a fact or truth. It’s a thought I’m having and trying to develop that perspective.

Marielle Berg 

I think on that note, this is probably a good place to end.

Ed Fowler 

So good luck with your practice, everyone.

Marielle Berg 

Yes, and we will we’ll be back with with more episodes. Thanks for listening to today’s episode. To learn more or if you’re in the Bay Area and want to get started with therapy, you can find us online at bayareadbtcc.com. That’s bayareadbtcc.com.