#15: Check the Facts
In Episode 15 of The Skillful Podcast, Marielle and Ed discuss checking the facts. When you have a painful emotion that you want to change, using the DBT skill called Check the Facts can be very helpful. Sometimes strong, painful emotions aren’t a reaction to what has actually happened but are based on beliefs, interpretations, and assumptions about what has happened. Use this skill to help you change emotions YOU want to change – not emotions other people in your life want you to change.
Show Highlights:
- Emotions might not be based on facts
- Sometimes just checking the facts can bring down a painful emotion quickly
- Start by naming the specific emotion that you want to change
- What event brought on the emotion?
- Be non-judgmental when describing what prompted the emotion
- Name your interpretations, judgments, assumptions, and thoughts about the prompting event
- Identify the stories your mind is telling you
- Ask yourself what you’re scared of
- Imagine the worst-case scenario and think about how you would cope
- Often painful emotions are based on assuming a threat and minimizing our ability to cope
- Assess whether the intensity of your emotion fits the facts
- Assess whether how long your emotion is lasting fits the facts
- Remind yourself that you have the capacity to get through very painful things
- Sometimes the emotion fits the facts but acting on it isn’t effective
Links & Resources
To learn more about DBT and therapy in general, read our blog.
DBT Skills Training Handouts and Worksheets, Second Edition
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#15: Check the Facts Transcript
Marielle Berg
Hello and welcome to The Skillful Podcast, where we explore DBT and RO-DBT skills to help you reduce emotional suffering, improve your relationships, and become more present in your life. I’m your host, Marielle Berg, a psychotherapist at the Bay Area DBT and Couples Counseling Center.
Marielle Berg
So, Ed, welcome. I’m excited to be talking about Check the Facts today.
Ed Fowler
Oh, yes, this is such a great skill. And I always kind of laugh because, you know, the skill is in the name, like, basically, checking the facts is what you do. And we can give a lot more details about what that means.
Marielle Berg
Yes.
Ed Fowler
But nonetheless, it’s a really valuable skill for Emotion Regulation, to be able to, like, you know, when we talk about it in group, for me, I am always reminded that when emotions are high, we want to balance that out with more of our Reasonable Mind, which is more focused on facts, and those kinds of things, in order to achieve that Wise Mind balance. So Check the Facts is something that we can do when emotions seem kind of high, to kind of balance it out a little bit, get to the middle, to determine: How do I act on these emotions?
Marielle Berg
Yes. And so just to give a little framework for where we are with the skill. Check the Facts is one of three primary skills that we use to help change painful emotions. And we also teach skills that help you reduce your vulnerability to those painful emotions in the first place. We teach mindfulness skills around emotions, but we have these three core skills, Check the Facts being the first one that we’re talking about today, that help you change the emotions that you want to change, that are causing you suffering.
Ed Fowler
And I think a point that that we try to really emphasize is that when we’re looking at changing emotions, we are changing them because they are causing some pain for us. And because we want to change them, not because someone told us we should change them, or we assume people think we should change them, or any of that. It’s really like, I don’t like feeling this way and I would like to change it, what are my options?
Marielle Berg
Yes. And that’s such an important distinction. Because it’s not going to be useful to use a skill, if it’s an emotion that someone else, you should stop feeling so sad, or needy, or whatever someone might have told you who’s close to you.
Ed Fowler
Right.
Marielle Berg
It has to be something that, that you want to change, because it’s getting in the way of living the life that you want to live.
Ed Fowler
Exactly. And I think that with the idea of starting if we want to change an emotion, starting with checking the facts is really important. Because as we’ve talked about before, emotions give us information. They communicate to us, they communicate to others, they motivate us towards action. So emotions serve a purpose. And sometimes we have emotions that we don’t really like and we would like to change. And before we try to change those emotions, we want to know what we’re dealing with, and be more factual about it. So checking the facts of the situation, that may be leading to the emotion.
Marielle Berg
Yeah.
Ed Fowler
To kind of like see what’s really going on here before we decide what we want to do.
Marielle Berg
Yeah. Because often, our strong negative or painful emotions aren’t really about the actual facts of a situation. Often they can be set off by our thoughts, or our interpretations of the event, rather than the actual event itself. I can give an example here.
Marielle Berg
I remember a while back, I was in the grocery store one morning, and I ran into a friend, someone I’m not that close to, but it’s part of my friends group. And I was chatting with this friend in the store and mentioned that my significant other was out of town. And then we said goodbye and went on our way. And she called me a short while later and she said, Oh, you know, the Academy Awards are tonight, we’re having a party, would you like to come? And I had, I, you know, I told her I wanted to think about it because I was sort of planning my day and I would let her know but really I had all these emotions when she called and invited me.
Marielle Berg
I had, immediately, a bunch of stories came in my mind. Like oh, I kind of knew that her significant other didn’t like my significant other and here’s proof. Now my partner’s out of town and I’m getting invited to this party. Like it was just, like I went wild in my head. And I came back to the skill and I was like, Okay, what are the facts Marielle?
Marielle Berg
So the facts were, and I kind of went through them, I ran into my friend at the store, she invited me to this party or get together, I was having emotions about it. So that was, you know, kind of a acknowledging to myself, but I didn’t have any facts to really substantiate this whole story that was causing me a lot of pain, and was going to lead me to say no to this gathering that I actually thought was going to be fun.
Ed Fowler
Right. And I think that that’s such a good example of how something happens, and wecan have an emotional reaction pretty quickly. And not necessarily notice that our thoughts are influencing that emotional reaction, our beliefs are influencing that reaction, our interpretations of the, whatever the event is, are influencing the the emotional reaction, sometimes we can have something happen, have an emotional reaction, and then create thoughts to justify that emotion. The thoughts that seem like facts are actually just coming after we’ve already had an emotional reaction.
Ed Fowler
So that’s checking to see wait, hold on, I’m feeling this emotion, what’s going on here, what are the actual facts of the situation? It’s something concrete, not my interpretations, not my assumptions, not my judgments. But what are the facts of the situation and start with that? And in DBT language, what we want to do is we want to look to see is the emotion that I’m having right now justified by the facts? So do the facts of the situation justify the emotion that I’m having? Or perhaps, is the emotion based in assumptions, or past experiences or reactions that are not justified by the facts, in which case, trying to manage that emotion is going to have a very different outcome than if I’m really basing it in what’s what are the facts of the situation, what emotion goes with that?
Marielle Berg
Yes. And I think this skill also is, or as we’re talking about the skill, I’m thinking back to our episode on myths about emotions. And I can’t remember exactly how we worded this myth, but it was a myth or maybe a couple of myths around like it’s inauthentic to change my emotions or myths that have to go to like my emotions, or should always be trusted, or somehow it’s wrong to want to shift or change our emotions.
Ed Fowler
Right. And I think that this, this skill of checking the facts reminds us that we can very often have emotions that are not based in facts.
Marielle Berg
Yes.
Ed Fowler
And if if that’s the case, then we want to align our emotions with the facts of the situation. And so we might need to change that emotion in order to get in line with the facts.
Marielle Berg
Yeah. And sometimes going through the process of checking the facts. And we’ll talk about how to actually do it, because there’s several different steps. Doing that, just in and of itself can bring down the emotion, you know, tenfold.
Ed Fowler
Right. So if I’m having a really strong emotion, taking a step back and checking the facts of the situation sometimes can help to just simply be like, Oh, I’m feeling really angry, because I’m assuming what that other person is thinking. And I have no idea what they’re thinking.
Marielle Berg
Right.
Ed Fowler
Let me slow that down.
Marielle Berg
Yeah. So let’s let’s start leading listeners through all the different steps and how you actually do it. Because as you said, the beginning like, what the skill is, or the the name of the skill is what you do. But it’s it’s more nuanced than just checking the facts. So there’s a process that can help guide you through it.
Ed Fowler
Right. So when I think that, looking at checking the facts, the place to start is to name the emotion that you’re having that you want to change. So to start with, what emotion am I having? And so often, when we do this with people, they will say, I’m just feeling bad. Well, but what kind of bad? Are you feeling angry? Are you feeling sad? Are you feeling scared? Like what exactly is the emotion? So naming the emotion is the most helpful starting place and a way to like start checking the facts. What specific emotion is this? Not just I feel bad, or I don’t like how I feel, but I am feeling angry or whatever it might be.
Marielle Berg
Yeah. And even during that, that small step when you go from I’m just feeling bad or crappy or down, or whatever language you might use, and actually labeling it. Saying saying what the emotion actually is, oh, I’m angry, or I’m feeling shame – just doing that can be calming.
Ed Fowler
Right. Yeah, for me, for me, it helps a lot to just be like, hold on. What am I feeling? Oh, I feel scared. Okay. Instead of oh my god, I feel overwhelmed. I think we all kind of have like a, an automatic story we tell ourselves. So sometimes like for me, I will say, oh, I feel overwhelmed. What does that mean? Like, oh, I feel scared or oh, I feel angry. And so I know plenty of people who say I feel bad, or I don’t feel good. But like naming the actual emotion that we’re having gives us information just right off the bat.
Marielle Berg
Yeah. Okay. And then the next step with checking the facts, once you’ve named your emotion, is to ask what is the event that is prompting my emotion? So what is the thing that happened that brought the emotion on? And this can be something that’s external, like out in your world, so with this example, a game of running into acquaintance at the grocery store and asking me to this party when she learned that my spouse was out of town, that was external. It can also be internal, where the prompting event is a thought you had, or a memory, or maybe you smelled something that evoked a memory, or a sensation in your body.
Ed Fowler
Yeah, one of the things that we talk about in DBT, is that everything has a cause, like things don’t come out of nowhere. Oftentimes, we don’t know what that cause is. So when we’re having an emotion, there is something that prompted it. We honestly, we can’t always pinpoint what prompted this emotion.
Ed Fowler
For instance, if I smell something and have an automatic reaction to that, and can’t really put together that that smell reminded me of something from the past that created this emotion reaction, we can’t always do that. Oftentimes we can, we can see, oh, when this person said this, this is what prompted the emotion. Or when I had this feeling in my body, this is what prompted the fear or whatever it might be. So being able to, like say, what exactly prompted my emotion, and to try to be as non judgmental as possible, a skill that we’ve talked about before. Just, you know, like, what did I experience with my senses? What is the who, what, when, and where of the situation? So that we can just be as factual as possible, trying to put our assumptions, judgments, interpretations to the side.
Marielle Berg
And so some examples of describing the event that prompted your emotion that is not just about the facts. Suppose you’re waiting from a phone call from your boyfriend, you haven’t heard from him. And so you’re, you’re saying, okay, the emotion I’m feeling is anger. They said they were going to call, they haven’t called. Okay, I’m going through Check the Facts. What is the prompting event? Well, they, they’re a jerk, clearly, because they say they’re gonna call and they didn’t call. So that is maybe like a very obvious one that is not actually factual. It’s not actually the event. The event is I didn’t get the call.
Ed Fowler
I’ve done this with people enough times to have them say no, it is a fact that he is a jerk. Okay, well.
Marielle Berg
Which doesn’t mean, because we get to discern. Like there are people in our lives who might be better for us to not be close to.
Ed Fowler
Right. Again, if someone habitually says that they will call and they don’t, then you know, that is something to keep in mind.
Marielle Berg
Yeah.
Ed Fowler
Labeling it as a jerk, it will increase emotions. It’s not always actually helpful.
Marielle Berg
Yeah.
Ed Fowler
It doesn’t mean like, oh, I have to have this person in my life all the time. It’s just, you know, they didn’t, they said they would call and they didn’t call.
Marielle Berg
Yes. And for people who are prone to really strong emotions, or people who are emotionally sensitive, saying, well, he’s a jerk, clearly, that’s the event that got me so upset. It doesn’t allow for nuance, it goes into more of this black and white thinking. So maybe he’s acting in a way that kind of like a jerk now. But it erases all the other times that that wasn’t the case?
Ed Fowler
Right. And so when we are checking the facts, when we name our emotion, we try to as nonjudgmentally as possible, identify what was the event prompting the emotion. And then the third step is to actually dig into those interpretations. Because they’re, they’re almost always, there’s some level of interpretation or assumption that is going into this. And so naming those. So here are the facts of the situation that prompted the emotion. Here are my interpretations, my judgments, my thoughts, my assumptions that will contribute to this emotion.
Marielle Berg
So just going back to the story I told in the beginning with a friend who invited me to this party to watch the Academy Awards. My interpretations and assumptions had to do with them not really liking as I said, my significant other. I think there was old stuff around being excluded from my family of origin that came up. I have a whole story around oh, all my friends are getting together every year to watch this award ceremony and I’m never invited. And see, they don’t really like me. I mean, there was, you know, all these different ways, my mind told me a whole bunch of different stories that were painful.
Ed Fowler
Right.
Ed Fowler
And I think in the process of checking the facts, taking that step back and being able to identify, here are all the stories my mind is telling me, so that we can own it, and name it. And to sort out okay, these are the facts of the situation, I got invited to a party period, right? Here’s all the layers that I’m adding on top of that. And I don’t know for sure. Like, yes, I have experiences from my past that influence this. I don’t, I can’t say for sure that these things I’m assuming are what motivated the person to invite me to the party.
Marielle Berg
Yes.
Ed Fowler
And so being able to name that. And then I think another level that we can add is what are some other possible interpretations? So yes, I’m having these interpretations, these judgments of whatever happened, what are some other possibilities, right? Because whatever we’re assuming without facts, there’s other options as well, that we sometimes are screening out that could balance out the intensity of that emotion.
Marielle Berg
Yes. What this step does is it really helps us look at the situation from all these different angles. And for a lot of folks who are emotionally dysregulated, we can get this kind of tunnel vision. And it’s so hard to think more broadly and think about different points of view and different factors. And we just pay attention to the information that supports the painful story we’re telling ourselves.
Ed Fowler
Right. And so this process of checking the facts, of naming the emotion, naming what prompted the emotion, and then looking at our interpretations and other possibilities, that is, like slowing down that intensity, and giving us a chance to actually access that Wise Mind. So bringing our SUDs down, and access our Wise Mind about what’s happening here. Rather than ugh, I have this thing happen, strong emotion, and then I’m just in that emotion.
Marielle Berg
Yeah.
Ed Fowler
Checking the facts slows it down. And then we’re able to like see things a little more clearly than if we’re just in that strong emotion.
Marielle Berg
Yes. And so when I was in that painful place with that friend who invited me to the party, I you know, and last minute, or at least in my mind was telling me I wasn’t really wanted, because I was not considered when the initial planning happened. I was not able, in that moment, until I started walking myself through the skill to think about, oh, like a more positive interpretation that I ran into this friend in the grocery store and she said, oh, yeah, it would be really nice to have Marielle come tonight.
Ed Fowler
Right. And again, that slowing down, we are able to see these other sides of the possibilities.
Marielle Berg
Yeah.
Ed Fowler
And as you’re describing the story, you know, the person invited you, it sounds more likely that oh, it would be nice to have Marielle, than, oh, we don’t ever want to invite her. It’s an afterthought to invite her and we don’t even like her, and what, you know.
Marielle Berg
Oh, and I was like, oh, they feel bad for me because I’m alone tonight. This is a pity invite. It went all over. Yeah.
Ed Fowler
And from the outside, it’s like ah yep, how it sounds like they just were like, oh, that’d be cool to have her. But when we’re in the emotion, we don’t see that checking the facts allows us to see those other possibilities, and maybe embrace that perspective.
Marielle Berg
And then this is so interesting about the skill, one in which this piece can get lost when people just hear Check the Facts, I mean, you kind of get a sense of what it’s about. But what the skill asks you to do is to do a couple things. And the first one is to ask, what’s the threat? Because many times when we have a very strong negative emotion, and it’s sort of immovable, even when we Check the Facts, underneath it is something that feels threatening or scary.
Ed Fowler
Yeah, I think definitely, if there is an emotion that is really strong and hard to change, there’s usually some threat attached to it. We’re trying to protect ourselves in some way, which is a very human response. And we are programmed to be able to do this to protect ourselves from threats. So often, when we’re talking about checking the facts, doing those first three steps of naming the emotion, what prompted the emotion, what are my interpretations and other possibilities? If that’s not enough to bring the emotion down, then probably there is some threat involved and naming what’s the threat? What am I worried about here? What’s the threat to me that I’m assuming? And name it.
Marielle Berg
Yes, name it. And so with this story again, I feel like the threat for me in that moment was, you know, I’m not wanted, right?
Ed Fowler
Yeah.
Marielle Berg
Or I’m gonna be ostracized in some way. Which leads us to the next step where you say, you try to label what the underlying threat or fear is. And then the skill asks you to really kind of go there. Like, what’s the catastrophe? What’s the thing you’re most worried about happening? And really labeling it, and imagine it really happening. So this is a tricky part of skill.
Ed Fowler
Because so often, when we’re stuck with painful emotions, it’s because we are assuming a threat that’s probably too big. And we are minimizing our ability to cope with that threat.
Ed Fowler
And I think it is like, what is needed to bring the intensity of emotion down is rather than feeling some sort of threat, and assuming the worst in some way, and trying to push that away, that’s not going to work, right? So we named the threat, we named the worst that could happen. And we think about if the worst happened, how would I cope?
Marielle Berg
Yes.
Ed Fowler
Which is probably greater than we’re giving ourselves credit for. So with checking the facts, if we can’t get this emotion to move, then what is the threat? What’s the worst that could happen? What’s the catastrophe? And if that happens, how will I cope? So that it’s not so unknown, of like, oh, my gosh, I’ll never be invited to any other events again. if I’m never invited, how will I cope?
Marielle Berg
Yes. And coming up with different ways to cope. So could be Problem Solving, Radical Acceptance, all sorts of different things that we can do to cope with the things that we are really scared of.
Ed Fowler
Right. And so, you know, as we’re going, you know, Check the Facts is really a way to notice unwanted emotions, and make an effort to change them. And just going through this process can make a big difference, right? Just naming the emotion can help. Just getting to the facts of what happened that prompted the emotion. Being able to look at, what are my interpretations? Or are there other possibilities I’m not considering? Is there a threat? And if that threat came true, how would I deal with it? And oftentimes, that process is enough to be like, okay, oh, you know, maybe it’s not automatic, no one wanted to invited me to this thing, and no one cares about me, and they don’t like me, and they feel sorry for me, and they don’t like my partner and all this kind of stuff. But, you know, even if all of that is true, I’ll deal with it.
Marielle Berg
Right? Right, which can feel really empowering.
Ed Fowler
Right? And less threatening, the intensity of emotion will come down.
Marielle Berg
And then the last thing to ask yourself, or the last step of this skill, is to inquire, does the emotion and or its intensity fit the actual facts? So when we’re talking about Check the Facts, it’s not just does our emotion fit the facts, or is our emotion justified by the facts? We also want to think about how strong the emotion is, and how long it lasts. So if someone cuts me off in traffic, anger would fit the facts, and probably fear. Something dangerous has just happened, I feel threatened in some way. But if I’m still feeling angry, hours later, or we might even say in a rage, so the intensity is really high and it’s lasting for hours, then the emotion doesn’t fit the facts.
Ed Fowler
Sometimes our emotion actually doesn’t fit the facts, right? I got cut off in traffic, and I feel really sad. Okay, what’s going on there, because getting cut off in traffic doesn’t necessarily lead to sadness. Probably something it reminds me of, whatever, right? So sometimes the emotion actually doesn’t fit the facts of the situation. Sometimes the emotion does fit the facts, like I’m angry at getting cut off. But the intensity, rage, doesn’t fit the facts because I got cut off. But I didn’t get into an accident. I went on my way, the other person went on their way, you know. Like, yes, that’s dangerous, and we’re all okay. Rage doesn’t necessarily fit the facts. If I am angry days later, if every time I get behind the wheel, I’m angry about that person who cut me off, right, then that doesn’t actually fit the facts of the situation. So sometimes the the intensity or the duration will be not really fit. And that’s where we want to look at options for changing that emotion.
Marielle Berg
And so we’ve gone through all the different steps of how you actually Check the Facts. And let’s, let’s talk about another example or two. So and tell me about a painful emotion you had recently that you want to Check the Facts about.
Ed Fowler
Well, it’s interesting because when you brought up the whole driving thing. Many of my painful emotions happen either while driving or while being a passenger. And with my husband, like we both think that the other person is a bad driver, which is full of judgment. Mine, of course are correct. But I have to make sure that he doesn’t listen to this particular episode.
Ed Fowler
So, so very often what will happen is like he’ll be driving, and I will have all sorts of judgments about how he’s driving and get really angry that he’s doing the wrong thing. Like he’s not ,he’s, he should be going faster, he should be going slower. He should be signaling more, he should be signaling less. Whatever he’s doing, I have all these judgments that make me angry.
Marielle Berg
Okay. So the emotion you want to change is anger?
Ed Fowler
Yes.
Marielle Berg
What, what’s the prompting event? Or and you kind of named them, but like, say more about the thing that happens that makes you feel angry that, just sticking to the facts?
Ed Fowler
Just the facts?
Marielle Berg
Yes.
Ed Fowler
He is driving and I am not.
Marielle Berg
Gotcha. So like really just stripped bare of all the other stuff you said a moment ago.
Ed Fowler
Yeah. Yeah, that’s it.
Marielle Berg
So and that’s such a tricky, and I can certainly relate to this. That’s such a tricky one. You’re removing the like, he’s not driving right, he’s too fast, he’s too slow, he’s reckless, whatever.
Ed Fowler
Right.
Marielle Berg
Okay. The fact is –
Ed Fowler
That he is driving and I am not?
Marielle Berg
And you’re not. What are the interpretations, thoughts and assumptions about the fact that he’s driving and you’re not?
Ed Fowler
He’s doing it wrong. That and again, this happens a lot, and where it’s like, whatever he’s doing, he could be going too fast, could be going too slow. Whatever he is doing, he is doing it wrong. And you know, taking a look at that and breaking it down. It’s like, he’s just he’s driving. And I am not in control. And so I may be having a reaction to being out of control. That is a possible interpretation, as opposed to he’s doing it wrong.
Marielle Berg
Right, yeah.
Ed Fowler
Like I am reacting to being out of control.
Marielle Berg
So you’re trying to look at it from a different point of view.
Ed Fowler
Right. Yeah. So like, I have judgments. Like, yeah, he’s doing it wrong, too fast, too slow, whatever. And there’s other possibilities, like, you know, he’s driving the way he drives, it’s different than me. He, he is driving, and I’m not in control. And so I’m feeling anxious about not having control over where the car is going.
Marielle Berg
And then related to that, let’s go into the next question we ask. Are you assuming a threat?
Ed Fowler
I, again, I slowing it down, it’s like, oh, wow, I’m assuming that there will be an accident, because he did it wrong.
Marielle Berg
Yes. And so what this asks you to do is kind of assess the probability that this thing will occur and to think of other possible outcomes as well.
Ed Fowler
So we have been driving together for many years and never had an accident together. So the probability is very low. Actually, I need to put this in here. He is a very cautious driver. And so, I have had accidents, he never has. So. So that chance of him having an accident are really low, the probability is very low, much more likely that there will not be an accident.
Marielle Berg
And then, what’s the catastrophe? Like, what’s the thing you most fear? Is that the accident?
Ed Fowler
Yeah, that there will be a really bad accident. And, and this is the thing is that I complain a lot when he’s driving, but if there ever was an accident, I would immediately be like, you know, like, this was an accident, it’s not your fault, you know, accidents happen, you’re very cautious driver in general, like basically saying, all the things that I don’t say when I’m actually in the car, would be what I would do is like, jump into, like accidents do happen. Even when people are driving cautiously, accidents happen.
Marielle Berg
Well, I think this this might be moving away a little bit from this, you know, sticking to the strict kind of sequencing of the skill. But I feel like you’re touching on really an existential kind of conundrum here, which is we are out of control, or not in control of so many things in our life. So you could be the most cautious driver in the world, and accidents do happen.
Ed Fowler
Right.
Marielle Berg
And so how, how do we live with that knowledge that anything really can happen at any time?
Ed Fowler
And again, this is a good example of my emotion of anger is not driven by the facts of how my husband is driving. It’s driven by the fact of I am in a car out of control, like I cannot, with certainty, know whether an accident will happen or not. And so Radical Acceptance, a skill that we’ve talked about before is really like helpful here. Of like, rather than you’re not doing it right, you need to drive in a different way to prevent more possibilities of something bad happening, like accepting that something bad can happen, no matter what something bad can happen.
Marielle Berg
Mhm, yes. So if we go with this skill, where it says, imagine the catastrophe really happening, so you get in a car accident, how would you cope?
Ed Fowler
I mean, I would deal with it.
Marielle Berg
Yeah.
Ed Fowler
Whatever it might be. If I’m injured, I would deal with it. Right? I would just, I would deal with it. And I know, I, I know, I would kick into that gear pretty quickly,
Marielle Berg
Right.
Ed Fowler
And by checking the facts and slowing it down, it’s I’m able to like really recognize, like, oh, if an accident really happened, I would 100% put my energy into coping with that, and whatever that might mean.
Marielle Berg
Right. Which we can, this is a metaphor, I think, for life where accidents happen in all sorts of ways, where we don’t want them and we’re doing whatever we can to try to avoid them or life just turns out, things happen that we wish they didn’t happen, that we find ways to deal. We find ways to cope.
Ed Fowler
Right.
Marielle Berg
We lean on, you know, other people we,
Ed Fowler
Right.
Marielle Berg
Yeah.
Ed Fowler
We radically accept whatever it might be. And I think this is where so often when we have intense emotions, it’s because we’re not accepting, we are not recognizing our ability to cope with even very, very painful, difficult things.
Marielle Berg
Yes. And people who are listening, I imagine have had that experience. Where you have coped with very many, with, you have coped with painful things. I mean, all of us have, in one degree or another. And some lives have more suffering than others, unfortunately. But I imagine everyone who’s listening can think back to times where they had to cope with really challenging things. And they got through it one way or another.
Ed Fowler
Right. And reminding ourselves that we have that capacity. And for me, in this specific situation, it’s like, oh, why am I so angry and frustrated and scared, really? Like what’s underneath this fear?
Marielle Berg
Yes.
Ed Fowler
When like, I feel very clear, if we had an accident, I would cope no matter what, I would find a way to cope. But what is it that I’m afraid of?
Marielle Berg
So this as you were talking, I was thinking, okay, so we said that the emotion was anger. And I can certainly relate, because I’ve had this many times in the, in the passenger position, and I have put my right foot out and press that brake in the passenger seat. And of course, it never works, right? Like, it’s automatically it’s sort of just my, I’m doing that. And that under that, it comes out as anger.
Ed Fowler
Right.
Marielle Berg
You’re going too fast or going too slow, whatever the other person is doing wrong. But underneath that is a lot of fear.
Ed Fowler
Right.
Marielle Berg
That’s it. Yeah. And so the last question, does your emotion and or its intensity, fit the actual facts of the situation?
Ed Fowler
So I would say anger does not fit the facts, does intensity of anger, duration of anger, repetitiveness of anger, does not fit the facts, right? And fear, somewhat fits the facts, that it is, you know, being an any kind of moving vehicle, there’s potential for harm, so that somewhat fits the facts, but the intensity, the duration does not fit the facts.
Marielle Berg
Yeah. Another little nuance that we haven’t really talked about is that sometimes the emotion fits the facts, and we’ll talk about this more when we get into Opposite Action. So the emotion actually can fit the facts, but acting on it isn’t effective.
Ed Fowler
Right.
Marielle Berg
So and I think, because I also have what I previously thought was a lot of anger in the passenger position. When I, when my significant other’s driving, which now through the process we just went through I think is also fear. I would say some degree of fear does fit the facts, but acting on it, being terrified every time I get in the car, or every time I walk out of the house, for that matter, or get in the airplane or do anything because we’re just living in California where there’s an increased risk of earthquakes. Feeling the fear of what could happen that we can’t control on an everyday basis is not effective, because it’s paralyzing.
Ed Fowler
Right. So noticing, naming, working through, is what can be most helpful. So checking the facts, actually, with some of these existential kind of feelings, checking the facts can be really valuable in and of itself.
Marielle Berg
Yes. And so we have this other skill called Opposite Action, which we’ll talk about in our next episode, but the first place we go, when you have an emotion, a painful emotion that you want to change, is to check the facts. And sometimes just doing that, and sometimes you don’t even have to go to am I assuming a threat, what’s the catastrophe, how would I cope? Even just the first few questions of inquiring about the facts and trying to remove your interpretations and assumptions, that in and of itself can be enough to change the emotion and bring it down.
Ed Fowler
Right. So it’s really valuable. I use this skill every single day, in one way or another, because it does help me to stay balanced. And if I’m having an emotion to notice the emotion, and not necessarily be overwhelmed by it.
Marielle Berg
Yes. So thank you so much, Ed, for working through Check the Facts with me.
Ed Fowler
Yeah, I’m looking forward to continuing with some of these Emotional Regulation skills.
Marielle Berg
Right. Because then the next thing we’ll talk about, as I said, with Opposite Action is, okay, you can run through Check the Facts. Sometimes that is not enough to shift your emotion. So then what do you do? And we have more skills.
Ed Fowler
Yeah, more options.
Marielle Berg
There’s more, right.
Ed Fowler
Great.
Marielle Berg
Okay, great. Thanks again.
Ed Fowler
Thank you.
Marielle Berg
Thanks for listening to today’s episode. To learn more, or if you’re in the Bay Area and want to get started with therapy, you can find us online at bayareadbtcc.com. That’s bayareadbtcc.com.